Author Interview: sydney khoo chats to Youth Ambassador, Alex

sydney khoo: The Spider and Her Demons

Interview with Alex Dupriez

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Book Synopsis:

Uncover an extraordinary world of demons and witches, where the ones you love can hurt you the most and hiding your true self can get you killed. 

Between surviving high school and working at her aunt’s dumpling shop, all Zhi wants is to find time for her friends . . . and make sure no one finds out she’s half spider-demon. 

But when she accidentally kills and eats a man in front of the most popular girl in school, she discovers she might not be the scariest thing in the shadows.

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Alex: In your own words, what is The Spider and Her Demons about? 

sydney: Here’s my elevator pitch: The Spider and Her Demons is about a fifteen-year-old spider-demon who lives above her aunt’s dumpling shop in Chinatown, Sydney. She’s successfully hidden what she is from the rest of the world… until she’s caught eating a man by the most popular girl in school.

Alex: What inspired you to write The Spider and Her Demons? Where did you come up with the ideas?

sydney: Sometime in 2015, Marvel and Sony were looking for their new Spider-Man (this was post-Andrew Garfield, pre-Tom Holland). I became fixated with the idea of there being a Chinese Peter Parker, living in Chinatown, New York City, with his “Aunt Mei” above a dumpling shop. Even after the new Spider-Man was announced, I was so eager for it I started toying with the idea of writing a multi-chap fanfic.

I started planning the story in late 2016, but whenever I went to write it, the ideas strayed too far from canon to fit into a fanfic: I wanted Peter to have a distinctly Chinese name; I wanted the story to take place in Chinatown, Sydney; I wanted a universe where superhuman abilities weren’t the norm and the main character felt isolated and alone. It quickly became apparent I was writing this to deal with my own identity struggles and the idea would work better as an original story.

Alex: Your book has a really interesting world, and the way that you integrated witches, spider-demons, and magic within Sydney (city) was a really fun blend. What was your research process like for this? Did you draw from any specific mythology or media?

sydney: Since I grew up here, there wasn’t much research necessary for writing the city itself; I know the layout of Chinatown extremely well. Throughout the editing process I did visit Chinatown and take notes on my phone in order to double-check my descriptions in certain scenes were accurate. I’m not familiar with Point Piper at all (never been!), so I had to refer to maps and bus schedules pretty frequently during the writing process.

I did initially do some research into spider-like creatures in Chinese and Japanese folklore, but I already had a very (very) specific image in my mind of how I wanted Zhi’s spider-demon form to look like; I ended up referring to some of what I found in The Book of Demonology that features in the story, but didn’t ultimately use any of it for Zhi herself.

In terms of the magic side of things, I knew I wanted to deal with very rigid elemental-type witches, based loosely on the Chinese elements (wood, water, fire, earth, metal)—counteracted with witches who failed to fit that mould. I wasn’t particularly interested in Western concepts of witchcraft, though I am aware the concept of elemental-type magic is very common in Western media. I’ve always loved the trope of the “chosen one” who’s born on the cusp of two different powers or identities. I really wanted to emulate that but make it worse, if that makes sense.

Alex: The Spider and Her Demons tackles a lot of heavy topics and themes, such as body dysphoria, anxiety, intergenerational trauma, and psychosis. Why do you feel these are important topics to explore, especially in YA fiction? 

sydney: I will be completely honest and say I wasn’t being purposeful when exploring any of those topics in the book. I wrote about issues I’ve dealt with my whole life, including when I was a young adult, because I was trying to process them. This is the story I needed to read in my teens, but it’s also the story I needed to write in my thirties.

A lot of us who face these struggles, who have these experiences, who hold these identities, are demonised, not only in YA fiction and the media, but in the real world. It’s extremely damaging, to be consistently told by the world that you’re unworthy of love, unworthy of belonging, due to aspects of yourself you have no control over. It’s not easy to deal with as an adult, let alone as a young adult.

I do think it’s important for these topics to be explored in YA fiction, since young adults face these issues, but more importantly, these stories need to be told by writers with lived experience. I think the literary world likes to throw around buzzwords like “representation” and “diversity”, and yeah, it’s great when we have main characters who deal with heavy topics or come from marginalised backgrounds, but traditional publishing needs to make a concerted effort to give platforms and opportunities to authors who deal with these issues on a daily basis.

When we talk about boosting marginalised voices, particularly those with intersecting identities, we need to acknowledge how important it is for the literary world to be a welcome and accessible space for writers from marginalised backgrounds. I’ve found not only the publishing space, but the local literary space overwhelmingly white, cis, het, and neurotypical. It’s incredibly scary being the only writer of colour in a predominantly white space, and/or the only trans nonbinary writer in a room of cis folk; add being neurodivergent on top of that, it can be a nightmare to navigate. You end up having to educate people, from the editors to the marketing team, to the booksellers, hosts and interviewers, every step of the way and it’s exhausting. Diversifying publishing and the local literary scene would automatically mean more diverse stories being told by authors who otherwise don’t feel safe in these spaces.

I’d say we’re making progress, slowly chipping away at the various barriers put in place, but we’ve got a long way to go.

Alex: Each of your characters are incredibly endearing – and it is often said that an author will often put pieces of themselves in their creations. Which characters did you see yourself in the most? 

sydney: Zhi’s character is very heavily inspired by my life. I hoped if I could help her make peace with her demons, I could make peace with my own. Because there is so much of me in her, the idea of releasing this story to the world was incredibly difficult for me to process.

Similarly, Dior is the culmination of all my greatest friendships, the wonderful and the terrible, with the added bonus of her being cursed with the more painful aspects of my mental health struggles.

I have had the benefit of hiding behind the genre of fantasy, but it’s a vulnerable position to be in, putting the softest parts of yourself out there for strangers to dissect. I don’t read reviews of my work for various reasons, but a big one is the fear of how readers might respond to characters I’ve put so much of myself into.

Alex: Were there any particular challenges you had with writing The Spider and Her Demons? How did you overcome them?

sydney: I would say the actual writing was biggest challenge. I dealt with horrendous writer’s block at multiple points of the writing process, namely because I didn’t know how to progress the story. The very first draft I wrote of the book had very little plot, and in retrospect, I realise that’s because while I knew who Zhi was as a character I was unable to give her agency or growth. Here was this character I’d created with the express purpose of helping me work through my demons—and the demons were winning.

The book took me six years to write, yes, because the writing itself and the editing process were both gruelling, but I suspect it was also because I wasn’t yet the version of myself I needed to become. I had no idea how to write Zhi’s character arc, because I was stuck in my own personal dark night of the soul; I had to get past that point in order to figure out how to get Zhi past it too.

(In saying all that, any future works I write, I want the lesson of the story to be mapped out in my head long before I get half-way through any planning or drafting. It’ll save me a whole lot of frustration and time.)

Once I knew where the story needed to go and worked out structural issues with my editor, I found a lot of neurodivergent hacks for productivity really helpful: body doubling with other writer friends, virtual body doubling (using websites such as StudyTogether or), using noise-cancelling headphones, using pomodoro timers, having a writing-specific space, and the most important thing of all: setting concrete deadlines.

Alex: What is your writing process? Do you have a particular writing spot, habits, or routines you follow?

sydney: My stories tend to start as seeds—the vague idea of a character or world or lesson, that I let myself ruminate on, in the hope something more solid sprouts. From there, I usually end up writing dribs and drabs, tiny scenes written in my notes app on my phone that I collect or expand on until they need to be pasted into a new Scrivener document. Sometimes, that’s when the outlining and planning begins. Other times, I wing it and see if the story writes itself.

When it comes to writing long-form pieces, I’m a big fan of writing a “draft zero”, which is a nice way of saying “crappy first draft”; it’s where you get the story on the page as fast as possible, allowing it to be complete garbage if necessary. I find that purposefully setting out to write a bad draft makes it easier for me to finish since I’m not allowed to be a perfectionist.

When writing short pieces, I let myself be as nit-picky about each line as I want during the first draft. I’ll indulgently edit as I go and engage in numerous rewrites before I’ve even figured out the story I’m trying to write. There’s less of a time investment with shorter works, so starting again is not a big issue; but it’s exhausting spending months or years writing an entire book only to realise once you’ve finished the first draft you need to start again from scratch.

…

While writing the first few drafts of The Spider and Her Demons, I did have a list of writings spots I’d go to with my dog—specific cafes and dog parks where I’d write until my laptop ran out of battery or the sun went down. Part of my writing journey took place during the pandemic lockdowns, so I had to learn how to write at home. I had to spend a good month (or two) clearing out my mess of a bedroom and completely revamping my study area. I now find writing at home, maybe not easy, but far more doable, since those two spaces are neat and tidy.

[Bit of a detour here] I personally think it’s worth investing time and effort making a spot in your home into a space you’re comfortable writing in. If you’re neurodivergent like me, I know how daunting that can be as a task; if possible, ask someone you trust, whether that’s a friend, family member or support worker, to help you clear it out. Spend a day, or week, or month making that a goal.

If you don’t have any support and/or you’re on a time crunch, spend a day gutting the space completely and put everything into boxes/storage to deal with after you’ve finished your project.

Alex: What is one of your favourite scenes, quotes, or moments you had while writing this book?

sydney: 

• Conversation: Nadira and Zhi’s talk outside the school was my favourite conversation to write. During the first draft, the scene took place on a weekend, with Nadira working a shift at her dad’s convenience store and Zhi taking the train to visit her. After I restructured the story with my editor, the story underwent a lot of changes, and that scene no longer fit the timeline but I loved their conversation so much I reworked it in order to keep it in.
• Scene: The scene with Julien and Zhi in the Panne-Nix household was one of the more difficult scenes for me to write, but it holds special place in my heart. It didn’t exist in earlier drafts but I’m so glad I wrote it. It’s a part of the story I go back to reread often.
• Voice: Aunt Mei’s voice was the easiest for me to master as she was based on parental figures I grew up with.
• Character: In terms of enjoyment, Angela was my favourite character to write. She was the only character whose personality stayed exactly the same in my mind, from the first draft to the final. She’s one of those characters who writes themselves with no input from me. “The full tripod! Trying and podding!” I know this makes no sense but I couldn’t have come up with that if I tried. I maintain that Angela wrote herself.
• Character: In terms of fondness, of softness, of affection, I will always treasure getting the chance to write Dior Panne-Nix. She was incredibly difficult for me to write and one of the most meaningful characters I’ve ever had the pleasure of meeting.
• Moment: There’s this one specific scene I really struggled to write—when Zhi’s on her rooftop. From the start, I knew I wanted to have a parallel scene at the end of the book, but no matter how many times I rewrote it, I couldn’t seem to get it right. We were about to go to print (no exaggeration here, I’m talking first readers done, proofreading done, days out from going to the printer), when I finally, finally cracked it. I think it was 5am or some other ridiculous hour, my dog having given up on keeping me company, asleep in my study, when I’d finally managed to rewrite the scene into what I wanted. I remember being severely sleep-deprived, with anxiety leaking out my ears, so I’d worried once I’d I slept on it I’d wake up and the scene would be nonsense again. It wasn’t. I woke up and it was exactly what I’d been wanting to accomplish. It’s one of my favourite parts of the book now.
• Joke: The sai wun gei bit makes me laugh every time. I won’t spoil it for anyone who hasn’t read the book yet, but it’s in a line spoken by Aunt Mei during a fairly serious confrontation. The joke was 100% for me and I have no idea if non-Cantonese speaking readers found it funny, but Leanne Yong, author of Two Can Play That Game, messaged me when she read that scene and told me she laughed. I remember my whole heart swelling. If there’s one comedic line in the book I’m fond of, it’s that one.
• Quote: “If twice in one lifetime is too soon, I’ll find you in the next.”

Alex: Lastly, do you have any current writing projects you’re working on? Any hints, teasers, or glimpses into what we can expect in the future? 

sydney: I’m taking a bit of a break from writing original work to go back to writing fanfiction. Working on original work tends to take a toll on me since so much of my writing tends to deal with identity and trauma. I spent six years (1/5 of my life!) writing The Spider and Her Demons, so I’m letting myself indulge until I’ve refilled my tank. In saying that, there is a novel-length story I’ve been intermittently adding to, that I do have a title for, but I’ve been referring to as “tattoo WIP”. Those who read my short stories will know I prefer writing in second person; it comes far more naturally to me than any other POV. I think I could finish a draft zero for it quite easily if I set my mind to it, but alas, the fanfiction is calling me.

I do have to say, I’d originally planned The Spider and Her Demons as the first book in a trilogy. Zhi and Dior have only gotten a glimpse into the world of witches and demons, and there’s still so much for them to discover and overcome, about the greater world, but also about themselves and each other. I hope to get the chance to share the rest of their story someday.

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sydney khoo will be discussing The Spider and Her Demons at Love YA on June 1st in a sold out event. They will be joined by Amie Kaufman (author of The Isles of Gods) and C.S. Pacat (author of Dark Heir) in a session moderated by Rhianna Patrick. 

sydney will also be discussing their novel on June 1st alongside Amie Kaufman (author of The Isles of Gods) and Naomi Novik (author of The Golden Enclaves) in a session moderated by Ron Serdiuk. Tickets are selling fast, so get in quick — click below to book now!